Lucas Root: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode. We have today Hailey Rowe joining us. Hailey is actually a friend of a very good friend of mine, Dr. Dan Sullivan whom I got to know very well while I was living in San Diego over the last five years and when I talked to him about who he might know that runs a community that knows a thing or two about community that is passionate about community you Hailey were top of his list and over the last couple of months, you and I have gone back and forth and gotten to know each other a little bit and I’m glad to have you here.

Hailey Rowe: I’m glad to be here. Thank you so much. And yeah, Dan is awesome. So that’s great that you got to connect with him when you live in San Diego.

Lucas Root: He is a great guy. I’m I very much enjoy that friendship. Yeah.

Hailey Rowe: Nice.

Lucas Root: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Hailey Rowe: Yeah, so I am a marketing and sales coach and consultant, and I work primarily with health, life, and mindset coaches, and I also am a LinkedIn lead gen service provider. [00:01:00] So my whole mission is to help coaches who want to build their career and want to be able to do their craft, become actual business owners and be able to do that by acquiring clients and making their impact because I see a lot of individuals who become coaches and then they feel like I don’t have the business savvy or I’m not a business owner.

Hailey Rowe: They don’t see themselves that way. And so then they’re not able to share their gifts because they’re either coaching for free, which they can’t do forever. And, you know, they don’t always have the time to do that, or they just kind of give up. And so my whole thing is I want to help them be able to grow and become business owners and do more than they thought they could. And lean into their career.

Lucas Root: That’s awesome. Yeah, giving up is, I see it all too often and it’s a shame. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for doing what you do.

Hailey Rowe: Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for doing what you do with [00:02:00] community building and all of the things.

Lucas Root: My pleasure. Truly. I mean, the conversations I’ve had on this show have been amazing and eye opening and life changing.

Hailey Rowe: Nice.

Lucas Root: This one included. Right. Tell me a little bit about your community.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah. So I have a podcast that I kind of built a community around and my podcast is called Health Coach Nation. Now I used to have a Facebook group called Health Coach Nation, but sadly it got hacked and I haven’t been able to get it back. So my community no longer belong to me. So I had to start from scratch and now my community is called The Marketing Hub on Facebook.

Hailey Rowe: And of course, obviously I have community all over, but it is kind of a central location where people come to connect with others who are building their business. And it’s a place where you can, I’ve seen people become referral partners and it’s just kind of a fun way [00:03:00] to grow in your business and get tips for that, but also just meet others who are passionate about making the world either a healthier, more mentally stable, or more personally developed place.

Hailey Rowe: So, I built my community when I first, well, I’ve been in the coaching world for a long time. I got my first coaching certs in 2010, but in 2017, I decided to start building a community because I have been working in business development and marketing for some startups. And then I decided I want to go off on my own and have my own business.

Hailey Rowe: And I need to be around other people who are passionate about that kind of stuff. And so I started my Facebook group and I found that was a great place to have a community just because it can grow organically with the keywords you’re using and things like that. And so, I set that up and it started to grow organically and we actually grew my former [00:04:00] community to like 4,400 people and then sadly.

Lucas Root: That’s impressive.

Hailey Rowe: Thank you.

Hailey Rowe: I had to start over, but we’re not where we used to be because this was kind of recent. But now I have The Marketing Hub Group and that’s been really fun. And it’s interesting because I’m sure that as somebody who is into relationship building. It’s really nice to see how many people came to the new group and, you know, I think it all happens for a reason and I think that the people who are meant to be there are meant to be there and so yeah, it’s been a fun journey so far.

Lucas Root: That’s cool. I’m sorry about getting hacked. That sucks.

Hailey Rowe: Thank you. It’s all right. It happens.

Lucas Root: I like to tell people this is, I mean, getting hacked is one of it, but this is one of the reasons why you need to move off platform.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the good news is.

Lucas Root: Because on platform, you don’t own it.

Hailey Rowe: That’s so true. That is so true. And I did learn through that. And luckily that wasn’t my [00:05:00] only platform, you know, so I do have an email list and I do have other, you know, my LinkedIn and all that. So I was really glad that wasn’t the only place that I had been having a community, cause you’re so right.

Hailey Rowe: You really don’t own it and it could be gone tomorrow. And so that was a pretty useful lesson.

Lucas Root: Wow. Yeah. Thank you. Tell me about how the community comes together. And this is actually really interesting because one of the elements of community is projects. And you have had a recent example for creating a project for your community, i. e move out of the old Facebook group and come into the new one because you know, disruption.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah. So there’s been a couple things. I mean, I think this maybe is more of a general response, but I have, a group called The Coach Inner Circle, and it’s my group coaching [00:06:00] program. And I think that shows an example of projects or what you speak of with your leadership pillars.

Hailey Rowe: Because in that group, a lot of the women become very close friends and they have an accountability partner and they, you know, cheer each other on and come to each other’s live events or whatever they’re trying to promote online. And it’s really nice to have people who are supporting you and people who can relate and we have our group calls twice a week and everybody’s able to be like, oh, my gosh, I’m so glad you said that cause I was thinking that too, or I was feeling really nervous about blah, blah, blah, and it doesn’t come natural to me.

Hailey Rowe: And so hearing you say that and get coached on that was really useful. So I would say both in my paid coaching group and in my free community, a lot of the benefit comes from when I do like lives or when they’re able to connect with each other. And I also would say that I’m just, this is might be a tangent, [00:07:00] but I’m really big on part of my main way of getting out there and most fun way I think of marketing is collaboration.

Hailey Rowe: So doing stuff like this, where we’re having a conversation or, you know, just like supporting another business owner by sharing their posts or something like that. Like, there’s so many things that I think, we just forget that you can’t build your business by yourself. And so the more you’re open minded to going into relationships with not how, what can I take or what can I get out of this?

Hailey Rowe: But like, how can I, how can we be useful? How can I help this person? How can I get to know this person and that curiosity driving the way you really can’t go wrong. And a lot of fun projects will come from that.

Lucas Root: I love that. How can I be useful? You said something else in there that I really enjoy where you talked about people inside this inner circle who are showing up to each other’s [00:08:00] events and you talked about it in terms of being supported. And I want to sort of level that up a little bit because it’s so important to be supported and they’re not just being supported, they’re being supported by peers.

Lucas Root: So this inner circle is a peer network of people who are actively supporting each other, not just by showing up to the inner circle and asking questions or creating dialogue and discourse, but by showing up to each other’s events as a support. So they can see as a peer, the things that are being done.

Lucas Root: Yes, to learn from themselves, but also to share that learning with the host to say, here’s a thing that I saw here’s how I handle that. Or sometimes my guess is if they really love each other and support each other, they might actually step in and just provide that service like they’re live on the spot.

Lucas Root: That’s epic community. Like that’s amazing. That’s when the question you asked, or the statement you made is you can’t build your [00:09:00] business alone. My response to that is yes, that’s true. But even if you could, why would you want to?

Hailey Rowe: Yeah, that’s so true. It’s so much richer when you have that contribution going with peer to peer and everybody together. And I even had recently like a client who was, you know, she’s in a very focused phase in her business and she has a big trip coming up to Greece for three weeks with her husband and was worried about like, how am I, you know, what do I do with my clients?

Hailey Rowe: And like, how do I pause things? And I don’t want to lose momentum and all this. And it was, you know, I coached her on it, but it was really nice to have somebody else on our group call who could understand, cause she has a little kids and she’s traveled to, and all these things, and she juggles a lot. And she just said, you’re never going to get that time back.

Hailey Rowe: And you’re never going to have those three weeks in Greece ever again in your life, probably. So, you know, taking that time and appreciating it. And like, if it were me and she just kind of spoke from her own, you know, [00:10:00] experience, like I would enjoy the heck out of that trip and not worry about all this, but it’s just, you know, it’s like, it’s just fun.

Hailey Rowe: Cause I wouldn’t, you know, I have my own way of coaching her on it, but somebody else’s outside perspective can always be useful too. So, yeah, I think it’s always more valuable when you have more than one brain.

Lucas Root: Yeah. It’s not just perspective. It’s, I don’t know what it is but we humans are funny. We don’t like receiving advice only once, and we always like to hear the same thing in a different way.

Hailey Rowe: Yes. Repetition.

Lucas Root: I don’t know why, like, we’re funny. Like, why can’t we learn the thing just the one time? But we don’t, we just don’t like hearing something only once. And we don’t like to hear it in the same way twice. We want to hear it differently.

Hailey Rowe: And I think at different points in your life, you’re ready to hear certain things and at certain points in your life, you’re not, so there’s been times where I’ve listened to a podcast or something and [00:11:00] I’m like, well, you know, it kind of just is like in the background and nothing really stands out to me.

Hailey Rowe: And then I’ll listen to it again, maybe later or something. And I’m like, Whoa, that message. What I need to hear right now. So it is interesting. I think it’s a combo of just needing repetition, but also being ready to hear the message you’re meant to hear.

Lucas Root: I love that. We had a chance to talk a little bit about the elements of community. How do those show up in your community?

Hailey Rowe: Yeah. Well, I think the first thing that I see is Purpose in my community. So everybody who gets into coaching and who wants to grow as a business owner as well, we have this purpose of just growth and not just personally, but also professionally. And I think that the ripple effect of coaching is super powerful.

Hailey Rowe: So like by me, my clients get clients and them helping their clients, and then those clients go out into the world and they’re more confident at their job or they’re, [00:12:00] you know, doing the things they want to do. I just think it’s always this ripple effect, and I think that’s a big pull of why people get into coaching and all of that.

Hailey Rowe: I also think that when you say value is one of your pillars, I think that’s key. And I’ve always been the kind of person who I want to give wins ahead of time or give value ahead of time. So that people are like, there’s not a question of like, oh, well, it’s this programmer is working with her going to be useful.

Hailey Rowe: So I do incorporate a lot of, and when you just, like, I make a podcast every week. I do a blog. I do content. I do personalized freebies. Like, I literally, that is how my business has grown to where it is because I’ve had so many people say, Oh, if you do this for free, I wonder what your paid stuff is like.

Hailey Rowe: So I think just being willing to give value and not doing it from a place of like, [00:13:00] well, I’m going to give this and I expect this back, but more so I’m just going to give and plant seeds. And I know the harvest all shows up. It doesn’t have to be in the exact way. I think it’s needs to happen, but I know it all comes back to me. Right. And even if it doesn’t you’re still helping people and that is part of your contribution. So, I think that plays a role.

Hailey Rowe: I also think that when you say language, I’m curious. I mean, I hear, and I am sure this is just my marketing brain coming in, but I talked to so many coaches that their own words. I can have posts and I can have stuff out there. That’s like, people are like, wow, it’s like you’re in my head, you know? And so I think it is important to communicate with your community in their language.

Hailey Rowe: Not what you need, not what you would say is important, but what did they think is important? What are their dream outcomes and pain points and making sure that when you’re communicating, you’re using [00:14:00] those and not just what you feel like saying or what you think they want.

Hailey Rowe: And then the last thing I would say is when you say heart I have pros and cons to this. So I actually, when I first started my business, I was extremely attached to it and I was extremely like, took things very personally.

Hailey Rowe: Would be like a little bit of a roller coaster. Like if I got a yes, I’d feel really amazing. If I got a no, I’d feel really down. And I found that connecting my heart fully with no boundaries was actually not serving my business and my community. But when I was able to see my business as like an entity that I’ve created and it’s my contribution and it’s separate from me and it’s my framework and it’s, you know, my way of contributing.

Hailey Rowe: And there is a little bit of space between that and my personal self worth. That’s when I think I can really lead with heart because I’m not dependent on, I need you to do this for me or to be happy [00:15:00] with me and to like my stuff for me to feel good. It’s more like, I’m just going to serve and, you know, I know it’ll be useful to the right people.

Hailey Rowe: And I’m not going to have this roller coaster of emotion taking me away from giving my best, you know, because I’m just doing what I’m passionate about, or I’m just following my heart. So I do have a little bit of a different view on the whole idea of like, well, just like do what you feel like and follow your passion and like, you know, that kind of thing.

Hailey Rowe: I think sometimes leadership and showing up for your community is not what you feel like doing that day or there, you know, you do need to create a little space between taking rejection personally. So that’s just my two cents on that one.

Lucas Root: I love that. That’s awesome. So that sounds to me like you’re actually bringing together the social contract in a way and heart, right? Contract could be boundaries. Contract could be this is where, this is the line.[00:16:00]

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: That’s fantastic. I love that.

Lucas Root: And I think

Hailey Rowe: community members should have a contract of not thinking that, cause I see this a lot and I’m sure you do too, people like to ask permission to do things in their business or feel like they need to hear it from a guru or they compare their beginning to somebody else’s end. And they think that just because that person had that result, that’s what they need to do.

Hailey Rowe: And I think there needs to be a social contract where it’s like, no, you know. I’m going to take it all in, and I’m going to discard what’s not useful and I’m going to make it my own. Because if you’re always looking to other outside sources, gurus, coaching programs, courses, I see them as an enhancement and they can really be useful.

Hailey Rowe: But sometimes people use them against themselves because they become like dependent on like, well, do I have permission to do this? Like, is this, you know, I don’t want to do it wrong. And the truth is you just need to do [00:17:00] it and yeah, use your structure, use your support you’re getting. But at the same time, if you’re constantly like overthinking and needing and depending on somebody else or permission and things like that, you’re not, it’s going to be this never ending cycle where you’re always going to need more of that.

Lucas Root: Yeah. I like it.

Hailey Rowe: I don’t know if I went too far.

Lucas Root: No, that was great.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah, thanks.

Lucas Root: And I completely agree. We need boundaries, not just between us and the work that we’re going to do. We need boundaries between us and our expectation of ourselves.

Lucas Root: And the way you introduce that is amazing because sometimes people’s expectation is, I can do great things, but I can only do it when, you know, the guru tells me how.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: Yeah, we need better boundaries. We need a social contract with ourselves.

Hailey Rowe: For sure. Yeah. And I think the skill of resourcefulness, if anybody wants to become a leader, [00:18:00] whether it’s in their own business or leading a community or whatever, you’ve got to be super resourceful and you have to be able to make things your own and, you know, trust your gut in addition to taking in information and using it as it makes sense, but at the end of the day, you do need to become somebody who can make decisions on your own and be resourceful.

Lucas Root: Yeah, thank you. What does what does community really mean to you?

Hailey Rowe: Community to me means connection and it means having something bigger than you. Right? So if you think about any great person out there, like Tony Robbins, or anybody in our field who’s crushing it, they always seem to have a movement that they’re creating, not just a business, you know, offering [00:19:00] there’s a movement and there’s a like, I guess, essence or type of person or identity shift that they’re building around their brand.

Hailey Rowe: And I think community is playing a big role in that. So, That’s what it means to me. Yeah.

Lucas Root: I like it. That’s amazing. How does that differentiate between community to you as a leader and community to you as a member?

Hailey Rowe: Oh, that’s a great question. I think that being a community leader means that you are listening a lot to your community members and you are holding space for everybody to have their own voice in the community and you are willing to refine and, you know, adapt your community as you hear that feedback versus I think when you’re a member [00:20:00] in a community, it’s more about you are contributing or you are sharing a little bit more so than listening and you’re still listening.

Hailey Rowe: But you don’t, I think the leader needs to be the one who’s the most receptive and hearing what people want to need and providing that. And I also think when you’re a part of a community, it’s about seeing, I think in both cases, really though, it’s seeing about where can you bring the most value and what’s your role in the community.

Hailey Rowe: So as a leader, your role is to, you know, coordinate everybody and let them have a space to share and make it a welcoming community. But in as a member, maybe it’s different. Maybe your role is you’re the person who contributes a certain type of knowledge to the group or whatever your strengths are. So I don’t know if that is super sophisticated as an answer, but that’s how I see the difference between the two.[00:21:00]

Lucas Root: I like as a leader, you create the space and hold it and coordinate it. Right?

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: And in order to do that, well, you have to listen a lot. Did I get that right?

Hailey Rowe: Definitely.

Lucas Root: And I agree in order to do that. Well, you have to listen a lot, like a lot.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: They joke that God gave you two ears and one mouth. Cause you’re supposed to listen twice as much as you speak. But.

Hailey Rowe: Oh.

Lucas Root: In community, I kind of argue that our eyes are our ears as well. So in that respect, we actually have four ears and still only one mouth.

Hailey Rowe: Well, there you go.

Lucas Root: It’s a it’s an interesting way of looking at it and hit it right on the head like, we have to listen a lot more yeah, and then as a member it’s about showing up. Yeah that’s where heart really starts to play right show up the contract [00:22:00] heart bringing value because the members need to remember that value is a two way street It’s not just the leader and the space that is the value, it’s the members that are the value.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: My, my favorite metaphor, I use it all the time is barn raising.

Lucas Root: It doesn’t matter how good a coordinator we have, the barn isn’t getting raised unless a whole bunch of people are there pulling on the ropes.

Hailey Rowe: That’s a good one. Yep. Nice.

Lucas Root: Yeah, cool. Thank you.

Hailey Rowe: I also think the leader’s job is to ask the powerful questions to bring.

Lucas Root: Ask powerful questions.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah, to bring some form of structure to the group or community so that, it can be the best it can be versus if it’s like, no, kind of what you said before this podcast, you somewhat prepared, like it will just go much further when you, as the leader are prepared and coming from, you know, all right, here’s our general structure and being open to adapting it, but I do think structure is also a key component.

Lucas Root: Well, [00:23:00] thank you. Yeah, I do. I somewhat prepare. I have, I mean, probably a third of the conversations I have go completely off the rails and maybe that’s my most fun.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: Like, we start heading down a path and I’m like, this is still relevant and this is cool and I’m not going to stop. Like we’re going this way and that’s just what’s going to happen, but I still have to show up with that create the space, as you said, create the space. I still have to show up and create the space. And then we do what we do, but I have to create the space first.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: Yeah. Thank you.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah. Thank you.

Lucas Root: Yeah. What does leadership mean to you?

Hailey Rowe: To me, I actually have what I call three very important traits to successful leadership. And one of them is asking solution oriented questions. So [00:24:00] going back to rather than you as a leader, your job is not to be the victim here. So I see a lot of people asking questions like, why is this so hard? Or why won’t they respond?

Hailey Rowe: Or why, you know.

Lucas Root: Those are definitely victim questions.

Hailey Rowe: Yes, and so what we want to shift to is like, what’s right with this opportunity, like, what can I do to make this better? What’s, you know, what are the strengths I have that I can bring to this community? So really anytime you catch yourself as a leader, falling into blaming your members or, you know, oh, I’m just so overwhelmed or what’s wrong with me?

Hailey Rowe: Shift the question to something more open to something more on the positive side because our brains are wired to look for everything that’s wrong, but the truth is we can flip that around if we’re conscious about it. And the second thing is being willing to take massive action. So I’d see math.

Lucas Root: Take massive action.

Hailey Rowe: Yes. Now I don’t [00:25:00] see massive action as hustling, burning yourself out, doing stuff just to do stuff.

Hailey Rowe: I see it as

Lucas Root: I agree.

Hailey Rowe: being willing to take action and refine as many times as you need to until you get the end result that you’re looking for.

Hailey Rowe: And also being willing to do the things that may create the result you want, but you don’t know because of uncertainty and being willing to do that still. So there’s actually a story about I don’t know if you’ve heard this before, but Dave Scott, who was like a master triathlete, athlete guy.

Hailey Rowe: And he was so determined and disciplined and he did the main things he had to do like train and get sleep and all that. But he also was interviewed, he would share that he’d rinse his cottage cheese. This is a super weird story, but he would rinse his cottage cheese to strip the fat off of it, just in case, that like, leanness of it gave him a slight edge in his performance.

Hailey Rowe: So he was willing to [00:26:00] do something that, like, you don’t really know if that played a role in his end goal, but he was willing to do it just because he had that willingness to take massive action and do what it takes or whatever is required.

Hailey Rowe: And then the third thing I think that’s important with leadership is being coachable. So again, this comes back to being adaptable, like, are you able to understand that your thoughts create your actions, create your results, and it’s the same thing for your community and understanding that for them too, allows you to hold more space.

Hailey Rowe: So I think not only like I just find that asking powerful questions, holding space, a lot of that has to do with coaching, but at the same time. Also just understanding that a lot of times our lenses and the way we see things as shaping our results and being able to look at what might be doing that for you, that maybe we need to explore or change to improve what kind of result you’re looking for.

Lucas Root: I love it. Yeah. Wow. So, just to reiterate, so [00:27:00] everyone’s got it. It was asking powerful questions, taking massive action, but not necessarily working yourself to the bone, rather taking the next big step, the right next big step and refining along the way and being willing to fail and being coachable.

Lucas Root: I love it. Amazing. I think coaching is one of the most, and it’s funny that two coaches are having this conversation. I think coaching is one of the most underappreciated skills of humanity.

Hailey Rowe: Whoa. Yeah, I would agree. I think it’s, I mean, it’s changed my life and I am very grateful to know, and I feel like it’s like, once you know that you’re, at least I believe that your thoughts create your feelings, create your actions, create your results. Once you know that it’s like, Oh, you feel like you can figure anything out.

Hailey Rowe: You feel like, almost invincibility. Like, and yeah, you know, there [00:28:00] will be maybe circumstances you can’t control, but you just are on a whole new level when you understand that.

Lucas Root: Shaman Jurek says if every single word that I speak is a spell, that’s going to become reality. I have to be really careful about what I say.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: Your thoughts create your feelings, create your actions, create your results.

Lucas Root: Thank you.

Hailey Rowe: Thank you.

Lucas Root: Amazing. Has anybody ever asked you specifically, directly to ask powerful questions?

Hailey Rowe: Anybody asked me to ask powerful? What do you mean? Like, giving me a really good question before?

Lucas Root: So like, you’re in the process of leading something and somebody invites you to review your own work that would be asking you to ask a powerful question or they’re leading something and [00:29:00] they ask you to tell them the hard thing.

Hailey Rowe: Oh, yeah. Well, I’ve definitely had times where I’ve told the clients the hard things. But I’ve also been told the hard things by my mentor. So, for example, I have a mentor who allowed me to get out of a rut that I was saying in my business, because he said, imagine you were just totally reinventing this from complete scratch.

Hailey Rowe: You know, you didn’t have the audience you have. You didn’t have any experience that you’ve already had. You’re just starting from complete scratch. What would you choose to bring back in? Or what would you choose to just restart completely?

Lucas Root: Good question.

Hailey Rowe: It was a really powerful question. Yeah.

Hailey Rowe: And I think also a really powerful question to ask yourself is with whatever goal you’re trying to achieve or, you know, new thing you’re working on, ask yourself, what are your but’s? Like, so, yeah, that, you know, I can do that, [00:30:00] but first I got to finish blah, blah, blah, or, but blah, blah, blah, the, but what comes after the but is the stuff you have to work on.

Hailey Rowe: And the last thing I would say is a lot of times the things. So, there’s concept of limiting beliefs. A lot of us have ones that we know about ourselves that are limiting, but oftentimes the ones that are the most limiting are the ones that you don’t even know that you just think they’re fact.

Hailey Rowe: And you’ve been living like they’re fact your whole life. And you don’t even question them at all. So having an outside perspective and somebody who can ask you those powerful questions to help you realize, wait, I just thought that was my identity. What are you talking about? Or I just thought that’s how it works.

Hailey Rowe: So having that outside perspective and somebody who can ask you those powerful questions is really key. Cause there’s stuff I probably, you know, through my coaching and through working with coaches, there have been [00:31:00] things where I’m like, oh, like, I didn’t even know that was possible.

Hailey Rowe: What are you talking about? So, yeah.

Lucas Root: Yeah, I love that. One of the things that I say over and over again is you just can’t see your own stuff.

Lucas Root: Can’t see your own stuff. And you have to have people in your life, whether they’re a coach or a mentor or a therapist or a best friend who loves you and supports you and also helps you see your own stuff.

Lucas Root: You gotta have people that just point out that you know, you’re doing that thing. What do you mean I’m doing that thing? No, you’re doing that thing. Go watch the videotape again. You’re gonna see it. You’re doing that thing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard it.

Lucas Root: Like, even just like that. You’re doing that thing, Lucas. What do you mean? Tell me what that thing is. No. You’ll see it. Go watch the video. And then you do, and you’re like, how have I not seen this before?

Hailey Rowe: Yep. Totally. Oh my gosh. Watching yourself back and videos and stuff, side note, can be so painful sometimes, [00:32:00] cause you’re like, Oh, did I really sound like that? Oops.

Lucas Root: But again, you gotta have somebody point it out. Otherwise, you’re not ready to see it, right?

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: Not always. You’ll see stuff. But when somebody’s like Lucas, you’re doing that thing.

Lucas Root: Awesome. Thank you, Hailey.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: I like to wrap up my interviews with three questions. The first is for the people who are inspired by you and can’t stand not knowing you for another minute and I’m hoping there are a bunch of them because you’re pretty cool. What’s the one best way for them to reach you?

Hailey Rowe: Yeah. So you can reach me on Instagram at Hailey_Rowe, H A I L E Y underscore R O W E, the Marketing Hub Facebook group, the Health Coach Nation podcast, and HaileyRowe. com.

Lucas Root: Awesome. Next one What’s the one question that you wish I had asked but have not yet?

Hailey Rowe: Ooh, that is a very good question.

Lucas Root: It was asked to me once and I was [00:33:00] like, oh crap. I gotta use that.

Hailey Rowe: Oh my goodness. I would say, what do you think is required to make it as an entrepreneur? And the thing that I would say. Is going back to where we were talking about uncertainty. I think the biggest thing I see that trips people up and holds people back is they are thinking that, Oh, well, I don’t want to waste my effort and waste my time on trying this one thing or take action.

Hailey Rowe: And I need to know that this thing that I’m going to do is going to pay off in this way and otherwise I’m not going to do it. And to me.

Lucas Root: That all the time.

Hailey Rowe: And I think that it’s such a killer because yeah, you can take estimated logical guesses. Don’t just, you know, do something sporadically, of course but the people who succeed have been willing to take the action and bring the same [00:34:00] enthusiasm, whether or not it works and learn from it.

Hailey Rowe: Compared to being so worried about failing or wasting it and then not doing it at all and rejecting themselves ahead of time, and the truth is either way right now, whatever, if you’re an inaction, because you’re afraid to take action, that’s the wrong action, or if you’re taking action and it ends up being the wrong action, the second option you get further.

Hailey Rowe: Because you learn from it and can change it and adapt and learn what to refine. But the reason why I think so many people are afraid of that is because they beat themselves up if that happens. And they are afraid of the mental beatdown that’s going to come versus if they stay in inaction, they have nothing to beat themselves up about.

Hailey Rowe: But my suggestion is Stop doing that and take the action and find out and then be like a scientist and look at what didn’t work, et cetera. No need to attach extra emotional drama to that. Just knowing that’s part of the game, and it’s [00:35:00] all a game.

Hailey Rowe: That’s the other thing I’d say, see it all as a game, because it makes it much less harsh and serious and, you know, like you’re going to beat yourself up and less heavy when you just see it all as a game.

Lucas Root: That’s great. If you choose not to choose you’re still making a choice.

Hailey Rowe: Yeah. I saw a quote yesterday, side note, that said Oh my gosh, what did it say? It’s like, most of us think we’re fighting demons when really we’re just fighting the consequences of our own choices. And I was like Oh, that’s pretty good.

Lucas Root: Yeah, that hits right. How many times have you and I seen that message and not been ready for it not let it hit?

Hailey Rowe: Yeah.

Lucas Root: Right. Ah amazing. Thank you. Last question. Do you have any final thoughts?

Hailey Rowe: Final thoughts. I got to say, this is a different flavor of podcast [00:36:00] interviews. that I’ve done. Most of the time I’m teaching, I’m, you know, giving tangible takeaways. And I think this one was really cool because it was more philosophical. Which is something my brain’s not used to because I’ve gotten so, you know, into the interview world of like,

Hailey Rowe: Okay, you need to come and teach this topic or whatever. So it was a nice change of pace and I would say for anybody listening, you know, I hope that it’s helped you in some way, shape or form. And yeah, it was a fun change of pace.

Lucas Root: Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Hailey Rowe: Thank you.

Lucas Root: And thank you for joining me hailey

Hailey Rowe: Thanks so much. I appreciate it.