Lucas Root  0:01  

Welcome to Elements of Community Podcast about discovering and exploring the elements of community. I am Lucas Root, and each week we talk with a community leader about what makes their community thrive and bring value to both the leaders and the members join me as we unpack the magic of the Elements of Community.

 

Lucas Root 0:37

We’re live with Elements of Community. Zach, thank you so much for joining me can you lead off by telling the audience a little bit about yourself?

 

Zach Hammer  0:45  

Yeah, so my name is Zach Hammer I am the founder I call myself the chief bottle washer at Real Estate Growth Hackers, where that comes from ultimately. So the title is basically I believe in servant leadership and as the founder of Real Estate Growth Hackers, the chief bottle washer, I ultimately get done whatever needs to be done. It’s kind of the idea there, where Real Estate Growth Hackers came from is a really long journey, I actually started my career life seeking to be a pastor, I went to Bible college and eventually trained to be a preacher. But ultimately felt called a different direction. I dabbled in some MLM stuff, which led to learning a lot of marketing, learning marketing, I found a real passion for and ended up taking a job as a marketing director for a real estate team. While I was there, we doubled in business every year that I was there, I 5x, their lead flow and cut their cost per lead in half. But I am a horrible employee, I’ve been an entrepreneur at heart. And so I set out leveraging the information that I learned there that I developed there, with agents all across the country, and that’s where Real Estate Growth Hackers came from. It shifted and changed over the years from saying yes to any and every project that sort of came up into ultimately, today, I’m more focused in teaching and training in order to help enable people to do the kinds of things that we learned and developed over the years. So that’s kind of where we are today.

 

Lucas Root  2:25  

I love it. So we got a nice little chat before we got started. And we got to come up with a tagline for your community. You want to share that?

 

Zach Hammer  2:34  

Forgive me I am horrible with specific, scripted stuff. But yeah, so what we look to do is we are helping enable real estate professionals to achieve their goals and dreams, especially in light of the technology that’s coming into the space that essentially seeks to say that the real estate agent has no value. The real estate profession has no value, we’re standing up and saying, where are we valuable? How can we get that out to the market effectively? And how can we still really provide value to the market that needs help with real estate transactions and their real estate life?

 

Lucas Root  3:13  

Hmm, I love it. May I offer a line for you?

 

Zach Hammer  3:17  

Yeah, absolutely. 

 

Lucas Root  3:19  

Real Estate Professionals Seeking their Zone of Genius.

 

Zach Hammer  3:24  

Real estate professionals seeking their zone of genius, I like it!

 

Lucas Root  3:29  

I think that’s fantastic. I love it. Um, tell me more about the community.

 

Zach Hammer  3:35  

Yeah, so my community is comprised of a lot of people, I have this general belief that if you have a pretty clear focus on who you’re seeking to help, a very clear and direct target that often, that information applies to a wider group of people as well. So it’s actually a trick that I learned when preaching if you want to make everyone feel like you’re making eye contact with them when you’re up on stage, and you’re speaking to them, what you do is you don’t look at a group of people, you look at individuals, you look at one person and you make very clear direct eye contact, but what’s interesting is everybody around them feels like you’re looking directly at them as well. Whereas if you just look at kind of a general group of people.

 

Lucas Root  4:24  

That’s a great trick.

 

Zach Hammer  4:25  

Yeah, if you’re just looking at a general group of people, nobody feels like you’re making eye contact with them. And so nobody feels like they’re actually being paid attention to and so when you do the same thing your marketing or with your targeting, the same idea can happen. So where I focus most of my attention and effort is in helping the real estate agent and in being successful with their marketing by defining who they’re looking to reach, like you said, what their zone of genius is, and getting that message out effectively to the market and in doing so, I also find that that information is really helpful to other people as well. Mortgage professionals, Title folks, software companies that serve the real estate space often find value in connecting with the kind of information that I put out. And so the community is larger than who I am, maybe directly focused on creating content and help and training for. And it’s really any of those real estate professionals that are kind of in this current world of real estate.

 

Lucas Root  5:31  

I love it. That’s fantastic, that trick of like making actual eye contact is fantastic. That’s the opposite of what I’ve heard before. 

 

Zach Hammer  5:39  

Right. 

 

Lucas Root  5:39  

But it makes so much sense.

 

Zach Hammer  5:42  

Right. It’s literally something that you could test, you get up on stage and ask people you do the trick of saying, hey, I can have only eye contact with one specific person. And who thinks I was looking at them. Versus if you look at a group of people who thinks I was looking at them. And yeah, you can run the test, it’s kind of an interesting thing to see the result of.

 

Lucas Root  6:02  

It makes perfect sense. So you’re a trained preacher, you’ve built at least one really successful community. So you have some thoughts on sort of what makes a community effective? Can you tell me, what is it that makes a community effective?

 

Zach Hammer  6:18  

Yeah, so there’s a couple of things that I’d say, go into that, have you ever heard of? It’s funny, I forget the specifics of how this is described nearly every time I describe it, but there’s something called I believe the one sentence copywriting course, if I recall, I think that’s what it’s described as, have you heard of that concept before?

 

Lucas Root  6:43  

No, but I mean, it makes sense. I get it, I think.

 

Zach Hammer  6:47  

Yeah, fair enough. And I always forget the exact specifics, even though it’s just one sentence, like I said, I’m not good at generally remembering, a script. But one of the key ideas that they talked about is people will always rally behind those who throw stones at their enemies who excuse their mistakes, who basically like, there are a few ideas here that if you could achieve those ideas in your marketing and in your copywriting, then you align yourself with a group of people. So if you understand who somebody’s enemies are, and help them to fight close enemies, that’s a great way to bring together a group of people that all rally behind the common enemy, right? If you understand the common troubles and strife that somebody goes through, and you help them to get past that you help to lift them up out of it, and you help them to understand that there are times when there’s a lot that stacked against you. And when you make that clear when you shine the light on it, you say, hey, there is a lot of reason why you may not have been successful so far. There are a lot of things that come into this, that hold you back, that I want to help you get past that I want to help enable you to move forward through. Those kinds of things can actually really help to bring together a group of people who have those same enemies, those same troubles, those same kinds of goals. And bringing together people under that same kind of direction is often to me what community is about, so it’s a group of people coming together, trying to move forward in a pretty consistent direction. And as a result, they have the same troubles enemies, and those kinds of ideas.

 

Lucas Root  8:32  

That sounds like a common purpose. And a project, right, because you’re fighting a battle. And that’s not just a purpose. That’s a project. It’s really making me think here and just out of curiosity, like how do you decide which stones to throw and which enemies to choose? Like, there are lots of different people that have enemies that want to fight a battle?

 

Zach Hammer  9:02  

Yeah, I think the reality of that is that there’s a certain degree of introspection and experience that comes into play on this, I think part of the reason why I work with real estate professionals is that I’ve worked in the real estate industry like I have skin in the game, I’ve seen the value that having a real estate agent can bring to a transaction, and I can envision where the problems come if you try and get rid of them completely, right. And yet, there’s also a balance hereof, I try as much as possible to be an unbiased person, I think it’s nearly impossible, but I try to be an unbiased person and so I also admit the places where the real estate industry can be improved and where we can adapt and can change and can grow. And so looking at this idea of trying to be effective, brings me to this point of trying to find that balance, of being able to say, where are the real enemies? Where are the people that we can look at that I feel like they have it wrong, the people that are saying you are worthless, you are not valuable anymore in the market? I think that’s wrong. And yet still looking at the criticism and trying to say, where is the threat of truth in that too, though, right? Where are we getting this wrong? Where can we improve? And where can we adapt? And so in terms of finding those enemies, it’s sort of wrestling with those ideas of saying, Where do I believe that people have it wrong? Maybe what are the elements that they have that we need to adjust and adapt to? And then reinforce our marketing and our vision for who we are as well.

 

Lucas Root  10:58  

Awesome. And, again, you speak directly to real estate agents. But your community actually encompasses more than just real estate agents, your community is brokers and mortgage and software.

 

Zach Hammer  11:15  

Correct.

 

Lucas Root  11:16  

If you’re picking a fight on behalf of the agents, how do these other people decide that they want to get involved?

 

Zach Hammer  11:23  

It tends to be, companies and people that share a similar vision. So if we’re working with software companies, the kind of software companies that tend to make sense, are the software companies that are looking to equip agents, right? If we’re working with mortgage professionals, it’s the same thing. It’s people who see the real estate transaction as more than just their siloed part of the industry, they see it as a bigger process that real estate professionals in general help people through. And so they need the help of the real estate agent just as much as the real estate agent needs the help of the mortgage professional. So it’s everybody’s business. The concept of a rising tide raises all boats, they see the reality of, we’re all in this process together, how can we lift each other up? At the same time, we’re helping the real estate agent ultimately help the mortgage professional, and being able to make an impact to the community through that symbiotic relationship that happens there.

 

Lucas Root  12:27  

Yeah, I love it, I get it. How did you end up in the role of being the community leader? I get the story, you’re an entrepreneur, you’re a horrible employee, you have some really great experience with helping people engage with the market. That’s what marketing is. Right? Creating engagement. How did you end up being a community leader for this? There are just so many other ways that you could have gone as an entrepreneur, but this is the one that drew you in?

 

Zach Hammer  13:02  

Yeah. So I mean, it’s a combination of things. It’s in the same way of saying, part of what I’m doing is helping to throw stones at the enemies, right. So part of that is that having been in the battle, having seen where the industry is going, there’s a little bit of like a personal stake in this, I’m saying, I see the battle that we’re facing, and the question is, do I step up and try and enable this group of people that I’ve seen value in? Do I step up and try and help them? Or do I take my focus elsewhere? The basic idea of, if not me, then who else right? Do I believe that there’s somebody else, that’s better to help this industry? And there’s a certain degree of maybe hubris in this, but I think there are aspects that I bring to the table, that I think I can help this group of people, maybe better than they’re currently being helped. And so do I step up with that belief, saying, let’s test that. Let’s see that, if that’s the case, because I don’t really know until I try it, I don’t really know until I try and help this community of people and see if I’m actually making a meaningful difference. But I do have some inklings of why that’s the case. So the passion for the community itself, but further, when I have had the opportunity to teach and train and kind of rally around this community, I get the kind of feedback that the stuff that I’m doing is making a real difference in their life. And that’s part of what continues to pull me back into to keep helping.

 

Lucas Root  14:49  

Amazing. I’m hearing a couple of different elements there. So because you were involved in it, you had some really significant success ahead of time. You had the language of the people that you’re talking to, you already knew exactly how they want to be spoken to, you already knew exactly what to say, to capture their attention. You were doing that really well. So you have the language. It’s clear to me at least that you share a purpose, right? These guys are under attack. And I don’t think they should be or maybe they should be, but I don’t think that they should fail. Maybe they should be under attack, but they shouldn’t fail. So that you have a shared purpose. And then it sounds to me, like there’s some value to you in being the leader, which is similar to the value they get.

 

Zach Hammer  15:45  

Right.

 

Lucas Root  15:47  

Cool. Um, would you say that those three sorts of elements are what make an effective community leader? They have the language? They share the purpose, and they have some shared value?

 

Zach Hammer  16:04  

Yeah, I’d say, we’re looking at kind of the basic idea of, when is leadership effective? In the sense of, I mean, have you ever heard the concept? A leader requires followers, because otherwise, without a leader, having followers, it’s just a person going for a walk. Right? You have to have people that you actually are influencing that want to follow along with what you’re saying. So yeah, I think that you’re exactly right. I think there has to be that shared language, there has to be that shared purpose. Otherwise, why would people follow you, if you’re not taking them to where they want to go? Right, and that’s where I would say that that purpose fits in. And yeah, being able to step back and look and say, ultimately, a group of people working together to achieve anything,  they have to have that purpose, that shared language, because yeah, things in the community, for it to be a community, they have to be different than somewhere else. Right. Otherwise, it’s not a community otherwise, it’s not its own thing. It’s just a group of people or something, there has to be something different that sets it apart from, we’re, you know, I’m either part of the community or I’m not, right, and those elements definitely add up to me to make the difference for that. And in terms of, being able to just be a leader of a community, understanding those things, having that common alignment. Definitely makes sense. I think it’s an interesting thing. I don’t think every community necessarily needs a single leader. But it tends to be that unless somebody decides to lead, nobody does. And you might get multiple leaders at some point but yeah, the community doesn’t just happen on its own, I think you have somebody who has a heart and a passion to do something that kind of creates that vision and other people as well.

 

Lucas Root  18:19  

Now, you mentioned that you actually threw some stones at yourself. Do you believe that a community leader has to be there on the frontlines throwing some stones and fighting the enemy?

 

Zach Hammer  18:30  

You know, I guess you don’t necessarily have to I think it’s a lot harder if you haven’t. I think there might be personality types that make a bit of a difference, like how much empathy do you have for another person’s situation, I think would make a lot of difference in that. So whether or not you’ve participated in the battle yourself, if you can put yourself in the shoes of another person that might allow you to lead another community, if you don’t have that personal experience in the battle yourself, if that makes sense? And I’d say there’s probably a degree of that for me. So my experience comes as being the marketing director, and yet I’m not a real estate agent. So I’m not on the direct line of actually doing real estate transactions, but I’m closer to the community than say, some person who just chooses real estate because they think it’s gonna make the most money or something. And I’ve been involved on the frontlines and that way directly working alongside the people who were trying to do the deals, right. But yeah, I think it’s not necessary. I think it definitely helps. I think it’s probably one of the quickest ways to be able to develop that empathy and that shared language and really be able to hone that in.

 

Lucas Root  19:54  

Now I’m wondering, what would it look like to have an effective community with a leader or multiple leaders, that did not participate in the project, right. So fighting the enemy, I’m wondering what that would look like?

 

Zach Hammer  20:14  

Let me put it this way. I think ultimately, I don’t know. I could be wrong. Cuz Yeah, same thing. I don’t know exactly what it would look like, I think you don’t necessarily have to come into the community, having already fought the battle, if that makes sense. I don’t think there’s any way around fighting the battle at some point, right? Like, if you’re gonna lead, you have to be part of whatever battle is going on whatever the purpose is. Otherwise, what are you doing, right? Like, if you don’t have any level of caring about the purpose, caring about the direction that you’re going if it just doesn’t matter to you, then yeah, I think you’d really struggle to be able to lead and I think the way that you develop that care is by participating, but what I would say is there’s a difference between you could come into a community not having been part of that battle before and learn through the community. And then over time, you develop that bond amongst your fellow warriors or whatever, right, that inevitably would happen, but you may come into it pretty green. And I think that’s possible. I think how readily you’re able to adapt and grow and learn through that scenario is probably going to be that empathy, and how much you’re actually participating as well.

 

Lucas Root  21:50  

Yeah, I get it. Um, it sounds like we got a lot to talk about on sort of the project or the battle that the community engages in. Can you talk to me more about the battle, the project, the battle that real estate growth hackers engages in?

 

Zach Hammer  22:08  

So one of the biggest things that I think currently holds real estate agents back is that we’re kind of at the precipice, actually, we’re already in the middle of a major shift that’s happening in real estate in general, right. It’s been going on for a while, it’s hitting a bit of a groundswell, I think in terms of the impact of it. And that shift is the level of attention and tech that’s coming into the real estate space. Right. So before we had, like a Zillow in the market, making real estate listings just readily available to everybody in the US to be able to search through and find on their own. Before that the real estate agent was the keeper of this knowledge, like they have the secret knowledge, the only way that you could get it was to go through the real estate agent. And that isn’t actually necessary that great of a thing.

 

Lucas Root  23:07  

Like, do a lot of driving.

 

Zach Hammer  23:07  

Yeah, exactly. I think there’s a lot of good that came from that information being democratized. If all that the value that you bring is that I have the list that you don’t get to have outside of me, there’s not a lot of value that’s being brought there, right? And so there’s a lot of good that I think, is come from some of this technology and information coming into play. But what we have is that there are a lot of other things that happen in real estate transactions, right, there’s complexity in terms of making the decision of really what might be a good home or a good situation for a person. There’s the complexity of dealing with like the finances of it, there’s a lot that could go wrong still in terms of problems with the home that may be hard to detect or dealing with the negotiation process. Anyway, there’s a lot of chaos that happens in a real estate transaction that people miss. And so bridging this gap of the market is starting to see, like the first thing that I deal with is just looking for homes. And I could do that without a real estate agent. I could go to Zillow, I could start finding homes that I think are a good option.

 

Lucas Root  24:12  

I would argue and these days most people do.

 

Zach Hammer  24:15  

Yeah. Oh, exactly. I mean, the average real estate agent isn’t being consulted, until the person has probably already found the home that they either think that they want or that they at least want to look at. That’s the trend at this point. And so what’s happening is that I think people are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right? There is an aspect of a real estate agent’s old job that isn’t really all that useful anymore. And they’re missing the other parts where the agent has been very valuable, which is kind of being the wise counselor in this process of saying, okay, I understand your goals. I understand your needs. Let’s make sure that the transaction that’s happening for you actually accomplishes those effectively for you because it’s really hard for me to do that, to be able to navigate that right now at least. And so in terms of, like, where we exist, and what I’m doing is I’m trying to equip real estate agents to be able to effectively market to find the people in the current scenario, where they’re not just getting people coming to them automatically, because they happen to have the Tome of knowledge because that’s gone. So how do you find the people so you can still help them effectively, ultimately, actually helping the consumer to get a better end result than they would without the real estate agent? And in order to do that, you need to up your game on marketing, you used to not have to market so much. Now you do. Now you need to be there on the front end, finding people helping to get your message out there and influence them so that they know that when the time is right, they do need to talk to you in order to get the thing that they want, which is a transaction that ends up with the home that they want with the least amount of hassles and the least headache, they want that. And everybody wants that. And as yet.

 

Lucas Root  26:09

I want that.

 

Zach Hammer  26:10

Yeah, I haven’t seen a better way to get there, than leveraging the real estate agent and all of the technology that comes into play hasn’t really helped with that you still need the person who can kind of sort through the chaos, that is a real estate transaction to help you through that. And so we’re both helping real estate agents to be able to achieve their goals and dreams. But at the same time, I mentioned at the beginning, I believe all these things should be a win-win. If it’s not what’s best for the consumer, then I wouldn’t want to do it either. So it’s ultimately got to be both good for the real estate agent and for the consumer, in order to do that, and so leveraging technology, leveraging good marketing, in order to get that message out there to both help the agents and help the consumers to ultimately have the good end result is kind of what that process looks like.

 

Lucas Root  27:00  

I love that. Yeah, that’s exactly what I want. I want to go buy a house, I’m like, get me a real estate agent, right now, let’s do this. Amazing.

 

Zach Hammer  27:11  

There you go. And the key is so just like you mentioned, not every real estate agent has that same view. Like there are a lot of real estate agents who are still kind of in the corner, grumbling about Zillow. And bemoaning days gone by wishing that they were still in the situation where they didn’t have to think about some of these things, they’re not stepping up, they’re not trying to better their service and make sure that they’re actually providing real value to the consumer. So it’s kind of, when when we talk about who is part of this community, and who are we battling against, we’re kind of battling on both sides in a way, we’re battling, there is some really faulty belief that the real estate agent isn’t necessary. But from the industry itself, there are people who believe that there’s no value for the technology, either, that I should just keep getting paid what I was getting paid before for the same amount of work, even though what’s available in the market has drastically changed what a real estate agent needs to provide in order to still be valuable, right?

 

Lucas Root  28:23  

And the consumer.

 

Zach Hammer  28:25  

Exactly. And I seek to work with people who have that same vision of I realized that we need to be actually providing something of value in order to justify getting paid anything, right, as a real estate professional, I need to provide something that’s of real value to you the consumer, right. And at the same time, being confident in the reality of it’s not like I’ve lost all my value because Zillow exists because the technology exists. Right? So where is that value? And how do I communicate that? How do I find those people?

 

Lucas Root  28:57  

I love it. Yeah. That’s funny. Do you think all communities have a pinch? Like you do, where there’s the old way of thinking, and there’s a battle on that side. And then there’s the sort of hyper minimalist, a new way of thinking and a battle on that side, and you’re sort of pinched.

 

Zach Hammer  29:14  

You know, I don’t I don’t know if it would be all communities or not, but I’d say probably the way that humans work, we tend to operate with that whole 50 Shades of Grey sort of idea. So if you feel like there’s somewhere in the middle, that you feel like it’s the right answer, then that means that you’re going to have people who are to the extremes on either end. I mean, I guess what I would say is that the communities that don’t have that are probably at the very far extreme of one after the other. But yeah, I think in general, there’s probably some level of the old guard and the new guard in a way, and that there’s some blended between.

 

Lucas Root  30:07  

That makes me think there’s the sort of pinch. So you talked about the battle, and I talked about the project. And I’ve equated those and I think we sort of agree. Is it appropriate to say that every community has more than one project?

 

Zach Hammer  30:23  

I don’t know if every community has more than one project. I guess it depends on how you define it. So going with the battle, or like a war metaphor, if you have the overall war being like the key objective, which might be you have to come out of this thing, as unscathed as possible and defeating the opponent, right. In that war, you’re probably going to have a number of skirmishes and, and individual battles that actually take place along the path in the process to get to that end result. So you might have like you said, multiple projects along the way that equates to that ultimate, bigger picture that you’re seeking to achieve. So I’d say, almost definitely, you probably have multiple projects, depending on how you define it.

 

Lucas Root  31:21  

You brought up some really great points that not just had me thinking now, but they’re gonna have me thinking for a while, and I’m really looking forward to like, the way this all sort of comes together for me. So thank you very much. Um, is there something that I should have asked you but didn’t?

 

Zach Hammer  31:39  

Oh, I don’t know. I think the way that these conversations tend to go, for sake of how this works, I think there are probably times where that happens,  where somebody has a key insight or a key idea that just doesn’t naturally come out through the source of the conversation. But I believe more often than not, that whether it’s the right way of believing this, or whether it’s just the way that I only know how to I sort of trust the process and these kinds of things if something was important enough to come out, it’s probably going to come out if something wasn’t a big enough thing. 

 

Lucas Root  32:26  

I’m similar. 

 

Zach Hammer  32:26  

Yeah, if something’s a big enough deal, that I feel like it really matters to the crux of this conversation, then it’s probably going to naturally come out, and if not, it’s either the refinement that happens over time or whatnot, just there’s a fairly natural process to these sorts of things of having the conversation and seeing what services what comes up consistently, what doesn’t. And so, to answer your question, I don’t have any specifics. I don’t have anything else that I would say, hey, you missed this idea or something like that. I think the questions lead the conversation in a good way for us to come to this with, at least for me, especially, I didn’t come to it with an agenda, right. I just tried to authentically answer the questions and dive into the conversation naturally. So, yeah no, I don’t have any other points that I think you should ask.

 

Lucas Root  33:23  

Actually, you just raised the point that I absolutely should have asked, and it was a fantastic one. Um, you just raised the point of trusting the process. And I’m wondering if we cycle back to what makes an effective community leader if trusting the process is a necessary attribute to that community leader, someone who’s willing to trust the process?

 

Zach Hammer  33:45  

Yeah, I mean, shoot, to some extent, defining that process and understanding if there is a process, it probably matters right, in some communities, maybe they’re just understanding that there is a bit of a grinding that can happen that may not feel good, always, but is necessary for the forging of an idea and the refinement of thoughts and processes that having people you know, yeah, I’d say there are some good ideas there. So like for instance, no real estate agent going to say, hey, I’m so glad that Zillow came into the market and made my life 10 times harder. Like they’re not gonna say that and yet, there might be a few that would say that.

 

Lucas Root  34:40  

Best remind me of you. 

 

Zach Hammer  34:41  

Yeah. But the reality is that that uncomfortableness of what Zillow has done in the market is likely what ultimately helps to refine the real estate profession to step up and either level up or get out. And so there’s an uncomfortableness there that is part of the process. That inevitably as people grow as communities develop that that grinding and that battle that happens is I think what refines the community to be better over time. So yeah, and you’re right, I think there’s a certain element of people, especially today we sort of exist in a world where it’s like, everybody is constantly seeking to be perpetually happy. And I don’t think that’s realistic. I don’t think it’s achievable to never have downtimes, to never have moments of uncomfortably, where you’re sometimes you’re might be laboring through something. And so yeah, trusting the process might be understanding that and saying, like, there are gonna be times in doing something that’s worthwhile, where you have those uncomfortable moments that make you question if it’s worthwhile. Or at least make you question if you are up to the challenge. So yeah, I think there’s probably more to trusting the process than that. But that’s at least what comes to mind. To me, I think there is there is some power in that, in knowing what actually goes on in the work of the community.

 

Lucas Root  36:14  

Amazing. That was fantastic. Thank you. Is it common, does the community also have to trust the process?

 

Zach Hammer  36:23  

You know, I think the way that I define it is that the process is going to happen regardless. And if you don’t have a certain level of being comfortable with some of the awkwardness of that process, the only thing that changes isn’t necessarily the end result of where things go ahead. As much as how do you feel about it along the way, right. If you know an expense.

 

Lucas Root  36:51  

Good point, I mean, you pointed out, if you don’t have followers, you’re not a leader.

 

Zach Hammer  36:57  

Right. Yeah. And so, I would say, having people trust that, I guess, the way that I would describe that is the bigger concept, of like, if real estate agents in my community don’t understand that things have changed for consumers, right? Like, there is a meaningful difference there that might be uncomfortable for the agent. And if they don’t understand that, they have to now wrestle with that. And they have to figure out how to deal with that. And that’s part of the process, then what’s going to happen is the industry is going to move on without them. And so I think you’re right, I think for a community to exist, for those agents to still be in business for that to happen, then yeah, they have to trust the process of trust that they’re gonna have to work and change, they’re gonna have to develop, right? And so yeah, I’d say, for the community to exist, I guess what I would say is kind of looking at it from the bigger level of the people are still going to exist, real estate is still going to happen. There’s the question of whether or not you’re going to be part of it. Right. And I say that would be we’re sort of the process and paying attention to it would matter, both from the community and the leader perspective of if you’re going to stay involved. You got to be part of that process. And you can’t just bow out.

 

Lucas Root  38:22  

Amazing. Yeah, I agree. Thank you. I really appreciate you going down that road with me. 

 

Zach Hammer  38:27  

Yeah, you got it. It’s interesting. 

 

Lucas Root  38:29  

So you sold me on being a member of this group and I’m not even in real estate. Where do people find you?

 

Zach Hammer  38:37  

Yeah, so our website is RealEstateGrowthHackers.com, that’s probably the best place to dive in and see everything else we have a Facebook group, I do lots of webinars, I send out emails, and let people know what we’re up to. But  RealEstateGrowthHackers.com is gonna be the best place to start.

 

Lucas Root  38:53  

Awesome. I hope everybody goes and checks you out. What an amazing conversation. Thank you so much.

 

Zach Hammer  38:59  

You got it. 

 

Lucas Root  39:00  

Any parting words? 

 

Yeah, no, I’m excited to see what you’re up to. I’m excited to develop this. I mean, the reality. I think about things largely through the aspect of marketing and like getting a message out there. But as a general business process, one of the things that have always been very clear to me, is that the key work of any business is being able to develop some sort of tribe or some sort of community that rallies behind whatever you’re up to, because if you can’t do that, you don’t have a business, right? You might have a product, you might make a few sales, but you don’t have like a real business. There has to be a group of people who want what you are putting out, who want what you’re up to, in order for this thing to continue to exist. And so, the work of community and community development, I think is at the heart of really any successful business and so I’m very interested to see what you learn and develop and grow and what sort of key insights come out of this process that you’re going through of exploring community and exploring that concept because I think it is, just like I think real estate agents need to be adapting to the times and growing and leveling up I think those of us who want to continue to be successful in business and to grow and get to make a mark in the world through entrepreneurship and all that we need to do the same. We need to be looking at, are we doing these aspects right? Are we playing at the fundamentals of business correctly, I think the community is definitely core to that.

 

Yeah, love it. And I could not agree more obviously. Zack Hammer, thank you so much for being on the show. I can’t wait to have our next conversation.

 

Zach Hammer  40:58  

Absolutely, me as well.

 

Lucas Root  41:01  

Thank you for joining us this week on Elements of Community. Make sure to visit our website www.ElementsOfCommunity.com, where you can subscribe to the show on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, or via RSS so you’ll never miss a show. If you found value in the show, we’d appreciate a rating on iTunes. Or if you’d simply tell a friend about the show that would help us out too. If you like the show, you might want to check out our EOC inner circle where we deep dive with each guest on the inner workings of their community. We cover things like community model, profitability, and engagement strategies. You can join the inner circle at EementsOfCommunity.com/inner circle. Be sure to tune in next week for our next episode.