Real Estate Professionals Seeking their Zone of Genius

By | April 11, 2022 |

Welcome to Elements of Community!

I am your host, Lucas Root, and in this episode, we are going to talk about the real estate professionals seeking their zone of genius. Joining me in this episode is Zach Hammer the founder of Real Estate Growth Hackers—a marketing consulting agency that brings cutting-edge marketing tactics from the top modern marketers to the real estate community. Zach teaches real estate agents, teams, and brokerages how to generate an endless supply of leads on demand. Offering services that make the process simple.

Here’s just a taste of our talking points this week:

A Successful Community

Zach’s community is composed of a lot of people but he focuses most of his attention and effort on helping real estate agents in being successful with their marketing, defining who they’re looking to reach, and getting that message out effectively to the market. Which also translates to their zone of genius. 

Along the process, he finds that mortgage professionals, Title folks, and software companies that serve the real estate space often find value in connecting with the kind of information he puts out. His community is now larger than ever. And it’s for those real estate professionals that are in this current world of real estate.

Effectively Building a Community

One of the key ideas here is, “People will always rally behind those who throw stones at their enemies.” If you understand who somebody’s enemies are, and help them to fight those enemies, that’s a great way to bring together a group of people to rally behind you.

Bringing together people under the same direction is what an effective community is about. It’s a group of people coming together and moving forward in a consistent direction. And as a result, they have the same troubles, enemies, and the same ideas.

Other subjects we covered on the show:

  • How does Zach decide which stones to throw and which enemies to choose in every community battle he faces?
  • Zach shared how he became a community leader.
  • The three elements of an effective community leader.
  • Types of battles that Real Estate Growth Hackers engage in.
  • Why is it important for a community to trust the process?

If you want to know more about Zach Hammer, you may reach out to him at:

Transcript
Lucas Root:

Welcome to Elements of Community Podcast about

Lucas Root:

discovering and exploring the elements of community. I am

Lucas Root:

Lucas Root, and each week we talk with a community leader

Lucas Root:

about what makes their community thrive and bring value to both

Lucas Root:

the leaders and the members join me as we unpack the magic of the

Lucas Root:

Elements of Community.

Lucas Root:

We're live with elements of community. Zach, thank you so

Lucas Root:

much for joining me can you lead off by telling the audience a

Lucas Root:

little bit about yourself?

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, so my name is Zach Hammer I am the founder I

Zach Hammer:

call myself the chief bottle washer at a Real Estate Growth

Zach Hammer:

Hackers, where that comes from ultimately. So the title is

Zach Hammer:

basically I believe in servant leadership and as the founder of

Zach Hammer:

Real Estate Growth Hackers, the chief bottle washer, I

Zach Hammer:

ultimately get done whatever needs to be done. It's kind of

Zach Hammer:

the idea there, where Real Estate Growth Hackers came from

Zach Hammer:

is a really long journey, I actually started my career life

Zach Hammer:

seeking to be a pastor, I went to Bible college and eventuallhy

Zach Hammer:

trained to be a preacher. But ultimately felt called a

Zach Hammer:

different directions. I dabbled in some MLM stuff, which led to

Zach Hammer:

learning a lot of marketing, learning marketing, I found a

Zach Hammer:

real passion for and ended up taking a job as a marketing

Zach Hammer:

director for a real estate team. While I was there, we doubled in

Zach Hammer:

business every year that I was there, I 5x, their lead flow and

Zach Hammer:

cut their cost per lead in half. But I am a horrible employee,

Zach Hammer:

I've been an entrepreneur at heart. And so I set out

Zach Hammer:

leveraging the information that I learned there I that I

Zach Hammer:

developed there, with agents all across the country, and that's

Zach Hammer:

where Real Estate Growth Hackers came from. It shifted and

Zach Hammer:

changed over the years from saying yes to any and every

Zach Hammer:

project that sort of came up into ultimately, today, I'm more

Zach Hammer:

focused in teaching and training in order to help enable people

Zach Hammer:

to do the kinds of things that we learned and developed over

Zach Hammer:

the years. So that's kind of where we are today.

Lucas Root:

I love it. So we got a nice little chat before we got

Lucas Root:

started. And we got to come up with a tagline for your

Lucas Root:

community. You want to share that?

Zach Hammer:

Forgive me I am horrible with specific, scripted

Zach Hammer:

stuff. But yeah, so what we look to do is we are helping enable

Zach Hammer:

real estate professionals to achieve their goals and dreams,

Zach Hammer:

especially in light of the technology that's coming into

Zach Hammer:

the space that essentially seeks to say that the real estate

Zach Hammer:

agent has no value. The real estate profession has no value,

Zach Hammer:

we're standing up and saying, where are we valuable? How can

Zach Hammer:

we get that out to the market effectively? And how can we

Zach Hammer:

still really provide value to the market that needs help with

Zach Hammer:

real estate transactions and their real estate life?

Lucas Root:

Hmm, I love it. May I offer a line for you?

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, absolutely.

Lucas Root:

Real Estate Professionals Seeking their Zone

Lucas Root:

of Genius.

Zach Hammer:

Real estate professionals seeking their zone

Zach Hammer:

of genius, I like it!

Lucas Root:

I think that's fantastic. I love it. Um, tell

Lucas Root:

me more about the community.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, so my community is comprised of a lot

Zach Hammer:

of people, I have this general belief that if you have a pretty

Zach Hammer:

clear focus on who you're seeking to help, a very clear

Zach Hammer:

and direct target that often, that information applies to a

Zach Hammer:

wider group of people as well. So it's actually a trick that I

Zach Hammer:

learned when preaching, if you want to make everyone feel like

Zach Hammer:

you're making eye contact with them, when you're up on stage,

Zach Hammer:

and you're speaking to them, what you do is you don't look at

Zach Hammer:

a group of people, you look at individuals, you look at one

Zach Hammer:

person and you make very clear direct eye contact, but what's

Zach Hammer:

interesting is everybody around them feels like you're looking

Zach Hammer:

directly at them as well. Whereas if you just look at kind

Zach Hammer:

of a general group of people.

Lucas Root:

That's a great trick.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, if you're just looking at a general group

Zach Hammer:

of people, nobody feels like you're making eye contact with

Zach Hammer:

them. And so nobody feels like they're actually being paid

Zach Hammer:

attention to and so when you do the same thing your marketing or

Zach Hammer:

with your targeting the same idea can can happen. So where I

Zach Hammer:

focus most of my attention and effort is in helping the real

Zach Hammer:

estate agent and in being successful with their marketing

Zach Hammer:

defining who they're looking to reach, like you said, what their

Zach Hammer:

zone of genius is, and getting that message out effectively to

Zach Hammer:

the market and in doing so, I also find that that information

Zach Hammer:

is really helpful to other people as well. Mortgage

Zach Hammer:

professionals, Title folks, software companies that serve

Zach Hammer:

the real estate space often find value in connecting with the

Zach Hammer:

kind of information that I put out. And so the community is

Zach Hammer:

larger than who I am, maybe directly focused on creating

Zach Hammer:

content and help and training for. And it's really any of

Zach Hammer:

those real estate professionals that are kind of in this curren

Zach Hammer:

world of real estate.

Lucas Root:

I love it. That's fantastic, that trick of like

Lucas Root:

making actual eye contact is fantastic. That's the opposite

Lucas Root:

of what I've heard before.

Zach Hammer:

Right.

Lucas Root:

But it makes so much sense.

Zach Hammer:

Right. It's literally something that you

Zach Hammer:

could test, you get up on stage and ask people you do the trick

Zach Hammer:

of saying, hey, I only an eye contact with one specific

Zach Hammer:

person. And who thinks I was looking at them. Versus if you

Zach Hammer:

look at a group of people who thinks I was looking at them.

Zach Hammer:

And yeah, you can run the test, it's kind of an interesting

Zach Hammer:

thing to see the result of.

Lucas Root:

It makes perfect sense. So you're a trained

Lucas Root:

preacher, you've built at least one really successful community.

Lucas Root:

So you have some thoughts on sort of what makes a community

Lucas Root:

effective. Can you tell me, what is it that makes a community

Lucas Root:

effective?

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, so there's a couple of things that I'd say,

Zach Hammer:

go into that, have you ever heard of? It's funny, I forget

Zach Hammer:

the specifics of how this is described nearly every time I

Zach Hammer:

describe it, but there's something called I believe the

Zach Hammer:

one sentence copywriting course, if I recall, I think that's what

Zach Hammer:

it's described as, have you heard of that concept before?

Lucas Root:

No, but I mean, it makes sense. I get it, I think.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, fair enough. And I always forget the exact

Zach Hammer:

specifics, even though it's just one sentence, like I said, I'm

Zach Hammer:

not good at generally remembering, a script. But one

Zach Hammer:

of the key ideas that they talked about is people will

Zach Hammer:

always rally behind those who throw stones at their enemies

Zach Hammer:

who excuse their mstakes, who basically like, there's a few

Zach Hammer:

ideas here that if you could achieve those ideas in your

Zach Hammer:

marketing and in your copywriting, then you align

Zach Hammer:

yourself with a group of people. So if you understand who

Zach Hammer:

somebody's enemies are, and help them to fight close enemies,

Zach Hammer:

that's a great way to bring together a group of people that

Zach Hammer:

all rally behind the common enemy, right? If you understand

Zach Hammer:

the common troubles and strife that somebody goes through, and

Zach Hammer:

you help them to get past that you help to lift them up out of

Zach Hammer:

it, and you help them to understand that there are times

Zach Hammer:

where there's a lot that stacked against you. And when you make

Zach Hammer:

that clear, when you shine the light on it, you say, hey, there

Zach Hammer:

is a lot of reason why you may not have been successful so far.

Zach Hammer:

There's a lot of things that come into this, that hold you

Zach Hammer:

back, that I want to help you get past that I want to help

Zach Hammer:

enable you to move forward through. Those kinds of things

Zach Hammer:

can actually really help to bring together a group of people

Zach Hammer:

who have those same enemies, those same troubles, those same

Zach Hammer:

kinds of goals. And bringing together people under that same

Zach Hammer:

kind of direction is often to me what community is about, so it's

Zach Hammer:

a group of people coming together, trying to move forward

Zach Hammer:

in a pretty consistent direction. And as a result, they

Zach Hammer:

have the same troubles enemies and those kinds of ideas.

Lucas Root:

That sounds like a common purpose. And a project,

Lucas Root:

right, because you're fighting a battle. And that's not just a

Lucas Root:

purpose. That's a project. It's really making me think here and

Lucas Root:

just out of curiosity, like how do you decide which stones to

Lucas Root:

throw and which enemies to choose? Like, there are lots of

Lucas Root:

different people that have enemies that want to fight a

Lucas Root:

battle?

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, I think the reality of that is that there's

Zach Hammer:

a certain degree of introspection and experience

Zach Hammer:

that comes into play on this, I think part of the reason why I

Zach Hammer:

work with real estate professionals is because I've

Zach Hammer:

worked in the real estate industry, like I have skin in

Zach Hammer:

the game, I've seen the value that having a real estate agent

Zach Hammer:

can bring to a transaction, and I can envision where the

Zach Hammer:

problems come if you try and get rid of them completely, right.

Zach Hammer:

And yet, there's also a balance here of, I try as much as

Zach Hammer:

possible to be an unbiased person, I think it's nearly

Zach Hammer:

impossible, but I try to be an unbiased person and so I also

Zach Hammer:

admit the places where the real estate industry can be improved

Zach Hammer:

and where we where we can adapt and can change and can grow. And

Zach Hammer:

so looking at this idea of trying to be effective, brings

Zach Hammer:

me to this point of trying to find that balance, of being able

Zach Hammer:

to say, where are the real enemies? Where are the people

Zach Hammer:

that we can look at that I feel like they have it wrong, the

Zach Hammer:

people that are saying you are worthless, you are not valuable

Zach Hammer:

anymore in the market. I think that's wrong. And yet still

Zach Hammer:

looking at the criticism and trying to say, where is the

Zach Hammer:

threat of truth in that too, though, right? Where are we

Zach Hammer:

getting this wrong? Where can we improve? And where can we adapt?

Zach Hammer:

And so in terms of finding those enemies, it's sort of wrestling

Zach Hammer:

with those ideas of saying, Where do I believe that people

Zach Hammer:

have it wrong? Maybe what are the elements that they have that

Zach Hammer:

we need to adjust and adapt to? And then reinforce our marketing

Zach Hammer:

and our vision for who we are as well.

Lucas Root:

Awesome. And, again, you speak directly to real

Lucas Root:

estate agents. But your community actually encompasses

Lucas Root:

more than just real estate agents, your community is

Lucas Root:

brokers and mortgage and software.

Zach Hammer:

Correct.

Lucas Root:

If you're picking a fight on behalf of the agents,

Lucas Root:

how do these other people decide that they want to get involved?

Zach Hammer:

It tends to be, companies and people that share

Zach Hammer:

a similar vision. So if we're working with software companies,

Zach Hammer:

the kind of software companies that tend to make sense, are the

Zach Hammer:

software companies that are looking to equip agents, right?

Zach Hammer:

If we're working with mortgage professionals, it's the same

Zach Hammer:

thing. It's people who see the real estate transaction as more

Zach Hammer:

than just their siloed part of the industry, they see it as a

Zach Hammer:

bigger process that real estate professionals in general helping

Zach Hammer:

people through. And so they need the help of the real estate

Zach Hammer:

agent just as much as the real estate agent needs the help of

Zach Hammer:

the mortgage professional. So it's everybody's business. The

Zach Hammer:

concept of a rising tide raises all boats, they see the reality

Zach Hammer:

of, we're all in this process together, how can we lift each

Zach Hammer:

other up? At the same time, we're helping the real estate

Zach Hammer:

agent ultimately helps the mortgage professional, and being

Zach Hammer:

able to make an impact to the community through that symbiotic

Zach Hammer:

relationship that happens there.

Lucas Root:

Yeah, I love it, I get it. How did you end up in

Lucas Root:

the role of being the community leader? I get the story, you're

Lucas Root:

an entrepreneur, you're a horrible employee, you have some

Lucas Root:

really great experience with helping people engage with the

Lucas Root:

market. That's what marketing is. Right? Creating engagement.

Lucas Root:

How did you end up being a community leader for this?T

Lucas Root:

There are just so many other ways that you could have gone as

Lucas Root:

an entrepreneur, but this is the one that drew you in?

Zach Hammer:

Yeah. So I mean, it's a combination of things.

Zach Hammer:

It's in the same way of saying, part of what I'm doing is

Zach Hammer:

helping to throw stones at the enemies, right. So part of that

Zach Hammer:

is that having been in the battle, having seen where the

Zach Hammer:

industry is going, there's a little bit of like a personal

Zach Hammer:

stake in this, I'm saying, I see the battle that we're facing,

Zach Hammer:

and the question is, do I step up and try and enable this group

Zach Hammer:

of people that I've seen value in? Do I step up and try and

Zach Hammer:

help them? Or do I take my focus elsewhere? The basic idea of, if

Zach Hammer:

not me, then who else right? Do I believe that there's somebody

Zach Hammer:

else, that's better to help this industry. And there's a certain

Zach Hammer:

degree of maybe hubris in this, but I think there are aspects

Zach Hammer:

that I bring to the table, that I think I can help this group of

Zach Hammer:

people, maybe better than they're currently being helped.

Zach Hammer:

And so do I step up with that belief, saying, let's test that.

Zach Hammer:

Let's see that, if that's the case, because I don't really

Zach Hammer:

know until I try it, I don't really know until I try and help

Zach Hammer:

this this community of people and see if I'm actually making a

Zach Hammer:

meaningful difference. But I do have some inklings of why that's

Zach Hammer:

the case. So the passion for the community itself, but further,

Zach Hammer:

when I have had the opportunity to teach and train and kind of

Zach Hammer:

rally around this community, I get the kind of feedback that

Zach Hammer:

the stuff that I'm doing is making a real difference in

Zach Hammer:

their life. And that's part of what continues to pull me back

Zach Hammer:

into to keep helping.

Lucas Root:

Amazing. I'm hearing a couple of different elements

Lucas Root:

there. So because you were involved in it, you had some

Lucas Root:

really significant success ahead of time. You had the language of

Lucas Root:

the people that you're talking to, you already knew exactly how

Lucas Root:

they want to be spoken to, you already knew exactly what to

Lucas Root:

say, to capture their attention. You were doing that really well.

Lucas Root:

So you have the language. You it's clear to me at least that

Lucas Root:

you share a purpose, right? These guys are under attack. And

Lucas Root:

I don't think they should be or maybe they should be, but I

Lucas Root:

don't think that they should fail. Maybe they should be under

Lucas Root:

attack, but they shouldn't fail. So that you have a shared

Lucas Root:

purpose. And then it sounds to me, like there's some value to

Lucas Root:

you in being the leader, which is similar to the value they

Lucas Root:

get.

Zach Hammer:

Right.

Lucas Root:

Cool. Um, would you say that those three sort of

Lucas Root:

elements are what makes an effective community leader? They

Lucas Root:

have they have the language? They share the purpose, and they

Lucas Root:

have have some shared value?

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, I'd say, we're looking at kind of the

Zach Hammer:

basic idea of, when is leadership effective? In the

Zach Hammer:

sense of, I mean, have you ever heard the concept? A leader

Zach Hammer:

requires followers, because otherwise, without a leader,

Zach Hammer:

having followers, it's just a person going for a walk. Right?

Zach Hammer:

You have to have people that you actually are influencing that

Zach Hammer:

want to follow along with what you're saying. So yeah, I think

Zach Hammer:

that you're exactly right. I think there has to be that

Zach Hammer:

shared language, there has to be that shared purpose. Otherwise,

Zach Hammer:

why would people follow you, if you're not taking them to where

Zach Hammer:

they want to go? Right, and that's where I would say that

Zach Hammer:

that purpose fits in. And yeah, being able to step back and look

Zach Hammer:

and say, ultimately, a group of people working together to

Zach Hammer:

achieve anything, they have to have that purpose, that shared

Zach Hammer:

language, because yeah, things in the community, for it to be a

Zach Hammer:

community, they have to be different than somewhere else.

Zach Hammer:

Right. Otherwise, it's not a community otherwise, it's not

Zach Hammer:

its own thing. It's just a group of people or something, there

Zach Hammer:

has to be something different that sets it apart from, we're,

Zach Hammer:

you know, I'm either part of the community or I'm not, right, and

Zach Hammer:

those elements definitely add up to me to make the difference for

Zach Hammer:

that. And in terms of, being able to just be a leader of a

Zach Hammer:

community, understanding those things, having that common

Zach Hammer:

alignment. Definitely makes sense. I think it's an

Zach Hammer:

interesting thing. I don't think every community necessarily

Zach Hammer:

needs a single leader. But it tends to be that unless somebody

Zach Hammer:

decides to lead, nobody does. And you might get multiple

Zach Hammer:

leaders at some point but yeah, community doesn't just happen on

Zach Hammer:

its own, I think you have somebody who has a heart and a

Zach Hammer:

passion to do something that kind of creates that vision and

Zach Hammer:

other people as well.

Lucas Root:

Now, you mentioned that you actually threw some

Lucas Root:

stones to yourself. Do you believe that a community leader

Lucas Root:

has to be there on the frontlines throwing some stones

Lucas Root:

and fighting the enemy?

Zach Hammer:

You know, I guess you don't necessarily have to I

Zach Hammer:

think it's a lot harder, if you haven't. I think there might be

Zach Hammer:

personality types that make a bit of a difference, like how

Zach Hammer:

much empathy do you have for another person situation, I

Zach Hammer:

think would make a lot of difference in that. So whether

Zach Hammer:

or not you've participated in the battle yourself, if you can

Zach Hammer:

put yourself in the shoes of another person that might allow

Zach Hammer:

you to lead another community, if you don't have that personal

Zach Hammer:

experience in the battle yourself, if that makes sense?

Zach Hammer:

And I'd say there's probably a degree of that for me. So my

Zach Hammer:

experience comes as being the marketing director, and yet I'm

Zach Hammer:

not a real estate agent. So I'm not on the direct line of

Zach Hammer:

actually doing real estate transactions, but I'm closer to

Zach Hammer:

the community than say, some person who just chooses real

Zach Hammer:

estate, because they think it's gonna make the most money or

Zach Hammer:

something. And I've been involved on the frontlines and

Zach Hammer:

that way directly working alongside the people who were

Zach Hammer:

trying to do the deals, right. But yeah, I think it's not

Zach Hammer:

necessary. I think it definitely helps. I think it's probably one

Zach Hammer:

of the quickest ways to be able to develop that empathy and that

Zach Hammer:

shared language and really be able to hone that in.

Lucas Root:

Now I'm wondering, what would it look like to have

Lucas Root:

an effective community with a leader or multiple leaders, that

Lucas Root:

did not participate in the project, right. So fighting the

Lucas Root:

enemy, I'm wondering what that would look like?

Zach Hammer:

Let me let me put it this way. I think ultimately,

Zach Hammer:

I don't know. I could be wrong. Cuz Yeah, same thing. I don't

Zach Hammer:

know exactly what it would look like, I think you don't

Zach Hammer:

necessarily have to come into the community, having already

Zach Hammer:

fought the battle, if that makes sense. I don't think there's any

Zach Hammer:

way around fighting the battle at some point, right? Like, if

Zach Hammer:

you're gonna lead, you have to be part of whatever battle is

Zach Hammer:

going on whatever the purpose is. Otherwise, what are you

Zach Hammer:

doing, right? Like, if you don't have any level of caring about

Zach Hammer:

the purpose, caring about the direction that you're going, if

Zach Hammer:

it just doesn't matter to you, then yeah, I think you'd really

Zach Hammer:

struggle to be able to lead and I think the way that you develop

Zach Hammer:

that care is by participating, but what I would say is there's

Zach Hammer:

a difference between you could come into a community not having

Zach Hammer:

been part of that battle before and learn through the community.

Zach Hammer:

And then over time, you develop that bond amongst your fellow

Zach Hammer:

warriors or whatever, right, that inevitably would happen,

Zach Hammer:

but you may come into it pretty green. And I think that's

Zach Hammer:

possible. I think how readily you're able to adapt and grow

Zach Hammer:

and learn through that scenario is probably going to be that

Zach Hammer:

empathy, and how much you're actually participating as well.

Lucas Root:

Yeah, I get it. Um, it sounds like we got a lot to

Lucas Root:

talk about on sort of the project or the battle that the

Lucas Root:

community engages in. Can you talk to me more about the

Lucas Root:

battle, the project, the battle that real estate growth hackers

Lucas Root:

engages in?

Zach Hammer:

So one of the biggest things that I think

Zach Hammer:

currently holds real estate agents back is that we're kind

Zach Hammer:

of at the precipice, actually, we're already in the middle of a

Zach Hammer:

major shift that's happening in real estate in general, right.

Zach Hammer:

It's been going on for a while, it's hitting a bit of a

Zach Hammer:

groundswell, I think in terms of the impact of it. And that shift

Zach Hammer:

is the level of attention and tech that's coming into the real

Zach Hammer:

estate space. Right. So before we had, like a Zillow in the

Zach Hammer:

market, making real estate listings just readily available

Zach Hammer:

to everybody in the US to be able to search through and find

Zach Hammer:

on their own. Before that the real estate agent was the keeper

Zach Hammer:

of this knowledge, like they have the secret knowledge, the

Zach Hammer:

only way that you could get it was to go through the real

Zach Hammer:

estate agent. And that isn't actually necessarily that great

Zach Hammer:

of a thing.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, exactly. I think there's a lot of good that

Lucas Root:

Like do a lot of driving.

Lucas Root:

came from that information being democratized. If all that the

Lucas Root:

value that you bring is that I have the list that you don't get

Lucas Root:

to have outside of me, there's not a lot of value that's being

Lucas Root:

brought there, right? And so there's a lot of good that I

Lucas Root:

think, is come from some of this technology and information

Lucas Root:

coming into play. But what we have is that there's a lot of

Lucas Root:

other things that happen in real estate transaction, right,

Lucas Root:

there's complexity in terms of making the decision of really

Lucas Root:

what might be a good home or a good situation for a person.

Lucas Root:

There's the complexity of dealing with like the finances

Lucas Root:

of it, there's a lot that could go wrong still in terms of

Lucas Root:

problems with the home that may be hard to detect or dealing

Lucas Root:

with the negotiation process. Anyway, there's a lot of chaos

Lucas Root:

that happens in a real estate transaction that people miss.

Lucas Root:

And so bridging this gap of the market is starting to see, like

Lucas Root:

my first thing that I deal with is just looking for homes. And I

Lucas Root:

could do that without a real estate agent. I could go to

Lucas Root:

Zillow, I could start finding homes that I think are a good option.

Lucas Root:

I would argue and these days most people do.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah. Oh, exactly. I mean, the average real estate

Zach Hammer:

agent isn't being consulted, until the person has probably

Zach Hammer:

already found the home that they either think that they want or

Zach Hammer:

that they at least want to look at. That's the trend at this

Zach Hammer:

point. And so what's happening is that I think people are

Zach Hammer:

throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right? There is an

Zach Hammer:

aspect of a real estate agents old job that isn't really all

Zach Hammer:

that useful anymore. And they're missing the other parts where

Zach Hammer:

the agent has been very valuable, which is kind of being

Zach Hammer:

the wise counselor in this process of saying, okay, I

Zach Hammer:

understand your goals. I understand your needs. Let's

Zach Hammer:

make sure that the transaction that's happening for you

Zach Hammer:

actually accomplishes those effectively for you, because

Zach Hammer:

it's really hard for me do to do that, to be able to navigate

Zach Hammer:

that right now at least. And so in terms of, like, where we

Zach Hammer:

exist, and what what I'm doing is I'm trying to equip real

Zach Hammer:

estate agents to be able to effectively market to find the

Zach Hammer:

people in the current scenario, where they're not just getting

Zach Hammer:

people coming to them automatically, because they

Zach Hammer:

happen to have the Tome of knowledge, because that's gone.

Zach Hammer:

So how do you find the people so you can still help them

Zach Hammer:

effectively, ultimately, actually helping the consumer to

Zach Hammer:

get a better end result than they would without the real

Zach Hammer:

estate agent. And in order to do that, you need to up your game

Zach Hammer:

on marketing, you used to not have to market so much. Now you

Zach Hammer:

do. Now you need to be there on the front end, finding people

Zach Hammer:

helping to get your message out there and influence them so that

Zach Hammer:

they know that when the time is right, they do need to talk to

Zach Hammer:

you in order to get the thing that they want, which is a

Zach Hammer:

transaction that ends up with the home that they want with the

Zach Hammer:

least amount of hassles and the least headache, they want that.

Zach Hammer:

And everybody wants that. And as yet.

Zach Hammer:

I want that.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, I haven't seen a better way to get there, then

Zach Hammer:

leveraging the real estate agent and all of the technology that

Zach Hammer:

comes into play hasn't really helped with that you still need

Zach Hammer:

the person who can kind of sort through the chaos, that is a

Zach Hammer:

real estate transaction to help you through that. And so we're

Zach Hammer:

both helping a real estate agent to be able to achieve their

Zach Hammer:

goals and dreams. But at the same time, I mentioned this at

Zach Hammer:

the beginning, I believe all these things should be a win

Zach Hammer:

win. If it's not what's best for the consumer, then I wouldn't

Zach Hammer:

want to do it either. So it's ultimately got to be both good

Zach Hammer:

for the real estate agent and for the consumer, in order to do

Zach Hammer:

that, and so leveragingt echnology, leveraging good

Zach Hammer:

marketing, in order to get that message out there to both help

Zach Hammer:

the agents and help the consumers to ultimately have the

Zach Hammer:

good end result is kind of what that process looks like.

Lucas Root:

I love that. Yeah, that's exactly what I want. I

Lucas Root:

want to go buy a house, I'm like, get me a real estate

Lucas Root:

agent, right now, let's do this. Amazing.

Zach Hammer:

There you go. And the key is so just like you

Zach Hammer:

mentioned, not every real estate agent has that same view. Like

Zach Hammer:

there are a lot of real estate agents who are still kind of in

Zach Hammer:

the corner, grumbling about Zillow. And bemoaning days gone

Zach Hammer:

by wishing that they were still in the situation where they

Zach Hammer:

didn't have to think about some of these things, they're not

Zach Hammer:

stepping up, they're not trying to better their service and make

Zach Hammer:

sure that they're actually providing real value to the

Zach Hammer:

consumer. So it's kind of, when when we talk about who is part

Zach Hammer:

of this community, and who are we battling against, we're kind

Zach Hammer:

of battling on both sides in a way, we're battling, there is

Zach Hammer:

some really faulty belief that the real estate agent isn't

Zach Hammer:

necessary. But from the industry itself, there's people who

Zach Hammer:

believe that there's no value for the technology, either, that

Zach Hammer:

I should just keep getting paid what I was getting paid before

Zach Hammer:

for the same amount of work, even though what's available in

Zach Hammer:

the market has drastically changed what a real estate agent

Zach Hammer:

needs to provide in order to still be valuable, right?

Lucas Root:

And the consumer.

Zach Hammer:

Exactly. And I seek to work with people who have

Zach Hammer:

that same vision of I realized that we need to be actually

Zach Hammer:

providing something of value in order to justify getting paid

Zach Hammer:

anything, right, as a real estate professional, I need to

Zach Hammer:

provide something that's of real value to you the consumer,

Zach Hammer:

right. And at the same time, being confident in the reality

Zach Hammer:

of it's not like I've lost all my value because Zillow exists

Zach Hammer:

because technology exists. Right? So where is that value?

Zach Hammer:

And how do I communicate that? How do I find those people?

Lucas Root:

I love it. Yeah. That's funny. Do you think all

Lucas Root:

communities have a pinch? Like you do, where there's the old

Lucas Root:

way of thinking, and there's a battle on that side. And then

Lucas Root:

there's the sort of hyper minimalist, new way of thinking

Lucas Root:

and a battle on that side, and you're sort of pinched.

Zach Hammer:

You know, I don't I don't know if it would be all

Zach Hammer:

communities or not, but I'd say probably the the way that humans

Zach Hammer:

work, we tend to operate with that whole 50 Shades of Grey

Zach Hammer:

sort of idea. So if you feel like there's somewhere in the

Zach Hammer:

middle, that you feel like it's the right answer, then that

Zach Hammer:

means that you're going to have people who are to the extremes

Zach Hammer:

on either end. I mean, I guess what I would say is that the

Zach Hammer:

communities that don't have that are probably at the very far

Zach Hammer:

extreme of one after the other. But yeah, I think in general,

Zach Hammer:

there's probably a some level of the old guard and the new guard

Zach Hammer:

in a way, and that there's some blended between.

Lucas Root:

That makes me think there's the sort of the pinch.

Lucas Root:

So you talked about the battle, and I talked about the project.

Lucas Root:

And I've equated those and I think we sort of agree. Is it

Lucas Root:

appropriate to say that every community has more than one

Lucas Root:

project?

Zach Hammer:

I don't know, if every community has more than

Zach Hammer:

one project. I guess it depends on how you define it. So going

Zach Hammer:

with the battle, or like a war metaphor, if you have the

Zach Hammer:

overall war being like the key objective, which might be you

Zach Hammer:

have to come out of this thing, as unscathed as possible and

Zach Hammer:

defeating the opponent, right. In that war, you're probably

Zach Hammer:

going to have a number of skirmishes and, and individual

Zach Hammer:

battles that actually take place along the path in the process to

Zach Hammer:

get to that end result. So you might have, like you said,

Zach Hammer:

multiple projects along the way that equate to that ultimate,

Zach Hammer:

bigger picture that you're seeking to achieve. So I'd say,

Zach Hammer:

almost definitely, you probably have multiple projects,

Zach Hammer:

depending on depending on how you define it.

Lucas Root:

You brought up some really great points that not

Lucas Root:

just had me thinking now, but they're gonna have me thinking

Lucas Root:

for a while, and I'm really looking forward to like, the way

Lucas Root:

this all sort of comes together for me. So thank you very much.

Lucas Root:

Um, is there something that I should have asked you but

Lucas Root:

didn't?

Zach Hammer:

Oh, I don't know. I think the way that these

Zach Hammer:

conversations tend to go, for sake of how this works, I think

Zach Hammer:

there are probably times where that happens, where somebody

Zach Hammer:

has a key insight or a key idea that just doesn't naturally come

Zach Hammer:

out through the source of the conversation. But I believe more

Zach Hammer:

often than not, that whether it's the right way of believing

Zach Hammer:

this, or whether it's just the way that I only know how to I

Zach Hammer:

sort of trust the process and these kinds of things, if

Zach Hammer:

something was important enough to come out, it's probably going

Zach Hammer:

to come out if something wasn't a big enough thing.

Lucas Root:

I'm similar.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, if something's a big enough deal,

Zach Hammer:

that I feel like it really matters to the crux of this

Zach Hammer:

conversation, then it's probably going to naturally come out, and

Zach Hammer:

if not, it's either the refinement that happens over

Zach Hammer:

time, or whatnot, just there's a fairly natural process to these

Zach Hammer:

sorts of things of having the conversation and seeing what

Zach Hammer:

services what comes up consistently, what doesn't. And

Zach Hammer:

so, to answer your question, I don't have any specifics. I

Zach Hammer:

don't have anything else that I would say, hey, you missed this

Zach Hammer:

idea or something like that. I think the questions lead the

Zach Hammer:

conversation in a good way for us to come to this with, at

Zach Hammer:

least for me, especially, I didn't come to it with an

Zach Hammer:

agenda, right. I just tried to authentically answer the

Zach Hammer:

questions and dive into the conversation naturally. So, yeah

Zach Hammer:

no, I don't have any other points that I think you should

Zach Hammer:

ask.

Lucas Root:

Actually, you just raised the point that I

Lucas Root:

absolutely should have asked, and it was a fantastic one. Um,

Lucas Root:

you just raised the point of trusting the process. And I'm

Lucas Root:

wondering if we cycle back to what makes an effective

Lucas Root:

community leader, if trusting the process is a necessary

Lucas Root:

attribute to that community leader, someone who's willing to

Lucas Root:

trust the process?

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, I mean, shoot, to some extent, defining

Zach Hammer:

that process and understanding if there is a process, it

Zach Hammer:

probably matters right, in some communities, maybe they're just

Zach Hammer:

understanding that there is a bit of a grinding that can

Zach Hammer:

happen that may not feel good, always, but is necessary for the

Zach Hammer:

forging of an idea and the refinement of thoughts and

Zach Hammer:

processes that having people you know, yeah, I'd say there's some

Zach Hammer:

good ideas there. So like as a for instance, no real estate

Zach Hammer:

agent going to say, hey, I'm so glad that Zillow came into the

Zach Hammer:

market and made my life 10 times harder. Like they're not gonna

Zach Hammer:

say that and yet, there might be a few that would say that.

Lucas Root:

Best remind me of you.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah. But the reality is that that

Zach Hammer:

uncomfortableness of what Zillow has done in the market is likely

Zach Hammer:

what ultimately helps to refine the real estate profession to

Zach Hammer:

step up and either either level up or get out. And so there's an

Zach Hammer:

uncomfortableness there that is part of the process. That

Zach Hammer:

inevitably as people grow as communities develop that that

Zach Hammer:

grinding and that battle that happens is I think what refines

Zach Hammer:

the community to be better over time. So, so yeah, and you're

Zach Hammer:

right, I think there's a certain element of people, especially

Zach Hammer:

today we sort of exist in a world where it's like, everybody

Zach Hammer:

is constantly seeking to be perpetually happy. And I don't

Zach Hammer:

think that's realistic. I don't think it's achievable to never

Zach Hammer:

have downtimes, to I never have moments of uncomfortability,

Zach Hammer:

where you're sometimes you're might be laboring through

Zach Hammer:

something. And so yeah, trusting the process might be

Zach Hammer:

understanding that and saying, like, there are gonna be times

Zach Hammer:

in doing something that's worthwhile, where you have those

Zach Hammer:

uncomfortable moments that make you question if it's worthwhile.

Zach Hammer:

Or at least make you question if you are up to the challenge. So

Zach Hammer:

yeah, I think there's probably more to trusting the process

Zach Hammer:

than that. But that's at least what comes to mind. To me, I

Zach Hammer:

think there is a there is some power in that, in knowing what

Zach Hammer:

actually goes on in the work of community.

Lucas Root:

Amazing. That was fantastic. Thank you. Is it

Lucas Root:

common, does the community also have to trust the process?

Zach Hammer:

You know, I think the way that I define it is that

Zach Hammer:

the process is going to happen regardless. And if you don't

Zach Hammer:

have a certain level of being comfortable with some of the

Zach Hammer:

awkwardness of that process, the only thing that changes isn't

Zach Hammer:

necessarily the end result of where things go ahead. As much

Zach Hammer:

as how do you feel about it along the way, right. If you if

Zach Hammer:

an expense.

Lucas Root:

Good point, I mean, you pointed out, if you don't

Lucas Root:

have followers, you're not a leader.

Zach Hammer:

Right. Yeah. And so, I would say, having people

Zach Hammer:

trust that, I guess, the way that I would describe that is

Zach Hammer:

the bigger concept, of like, if real estate agents in my

Zach Hammer:

community don't don't understand that things have changed for

Zach Hammer:

consumers, right? Like, there is meaningful difference there that

Zach Hammer:

might be uncomfortable for the agent. And if they don't

Zach Hammer:

understand that, they have to now wrestle with that. And they

Zach Hammer:

have to figure out how to deal with that. And that's part of

Zach Hammer:

the process, then what's going to happen is the industry is

Zach Hammer:

going to move on without them. And so I think you're right, I

Zach Hammer:

think for a community to exist, for those agents to still be in

Zach Hammer:

business for that to happen, then yeah, they have to trust

Zach Hammer:

the process of trust that they're gonna have to work and

Zach Hammer:

change, they're gonna have to develop, right? And so yeah, I'd

Zach Hammer:

say, for the community to exist, I guess what I would say is kind

Zach Hammer:

of looking at it from the bigger level of the people are still

Zach Hammer:

going to exist, real estate is still going to happen. There's

Zach Hammer:

the question of whether or not you're going to be part of it.

Zach Hammer:

Right. And I say that would be we're sort of the process and

Zach Hammer:

paying attention to it would matter, both from the community

Zach Hammer:

and the leader perspective of if you're going to stay involved.

Zach Hammer:

You you got to be part of that process. And you can't just bow

Zach Hammer:

out.

Lucas Root:

Amazing. Yeah, I agree. Thank you. I really

Lucas Root:

appreciate you going down that road with me.

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, you got it. It's interesting.

Lucas Root:

So you sold me on on being a member of this group and

Lucas Root:

I'm not even in real estate. Where do people find you?

Zach Hammer:

Yeah, so our website is

Zach Hammer:

RealEstateGrowthHackers.com, that's probably the best place

Zach Hammer:

to dive in and see everything else we have a Facebook group, I

Zach Hammer:

do lots of webinars, I send out emails and let people know what

Zach Hammer:

we're up to. But RealEstateGrowthHackers.com is

Zach Hammer:

gonna be the best place to start.

Lucas Root:

Awesome. I hope everybody goes and checks you

Lucas Root:

out. That an amazing conversation. Thank you so much.

Zach Hammer:

You got it.

Lucas Root:

Any parting words?

Lucas Root:

Yeah, no, I'm excited to see what you're up to. I'm excited

Lucas Root:

to develop this. I mean, the reality. I think about things

Lucas Root:

largely through the aspect of marketing and in like getting a

Lucas Root:

message out there. But as a general business process, one of

Lucas Root:

the things that has always been very clear to me, is that the

Lucas Root:

key work of any business is being able to develop some sort

Lucas Root:

of tribe or some sort of community that rallies behind

Lucas Root:

whatever you're up to, because if you can't do that, you don't

Lucas Root:

have a business, right? You might have a product, you might

Lucas Root:

make a few sales, but you don't have like a real business. There

Lucas Root:

has to be a group of people who want what you are putting out,

Lucas Root:

who want what you're up to, in order for this thing to continue

Lucas Root:

to exist. And so, the work of community and community

Lucas Root:

development, I think is at the heart of really any successful

Lucas Root:

business and so I'm very interested to see what you learn

Lucas Root:

and develop and grow and what sort of key insights come out of

Lucas Root:

this process that you're going through of exploring community

Lucas Root:

and exploring that concept because I think it is, just like

Lucas Root:

I think real estate agents need to be adapting to the times and

Lucas Root:

growing and leveling up I think those of us who want to continue

Lucas Root:

to be successful in business and to grow and get to make a mark

Lucas Root:

in the world through entrepreneurship and all that we

Lucas Root:

need to do the same. We need to be looking at, are we doing

Lucas Root:

these aspects right? Are we are we playing at the fundamentals

Lucas Root:

of business correctly, and I think community is definitely

Lucas Root:

core to that.

Lucas Root:

Yeah, love it. And I could not agree more obviously. Zack

Lucas Root:

Hammer, thank you so much for being on the show. I can't wait

Lucas Root:

to have our next conversation.

Zach Hammer:

Absolutely, me as well.

Lucas Root:

Thank you for joining us this week on Elements

Lucas Root:

of Community. Make sure to visit our website

Lucas Root:

www.ElementsOfCommunity.com, where you can subscribe to the

Lucas Root:

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Lucas Root:

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Lucas Root:

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Lucas Root:

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Lucas Root:

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Lucas Root:

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Lucas Root:

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Lucas Root:

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